MBA & Job Hunting in the US | From the Big Four Accounting Firms to Finance in New York! Do You Have to Be Good at Socializing and Drinking for an MBA? (Part 1)

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This episode is sponsored by "OfferLand". OfferLand is "a forum built for international students and people starting their careers". Besides the forum, we also offer an admission results lookup for study-abroad applications, helping make information more equal so we can build a professional study-abroad & career platform together!

Hi! Welcome to "Jason 學長的職涯資料夾" (Jason's Career Folder). I'm your host, Jason. I've been sharing content about careers and studying abroad for a long time. Here you can not only "open" the folder and explore stories, but also "edit" it with me: gain experience and insights, and learn something new!

Part 1 Why apply to an MBA, the application process & challenges

Today I'm really happy to have KC here to share
his reasons for applying to an MBA, the application process and its challenges, and what the MBA was like
plus his take on job hunting in finance in New York and on running his own social media!
So if you're curious, keep listening!

KC introduces himself

Hi everyone, I'm really happy to be on Jason's podcast today

Jason and I both do Instagram, and we both started out posting about studying abroad
That's how I got to know Jason. I graduated from the Michigan Ross MBA at the end of April 2023
and I'm now doing Corporate Finance at a financial firm in New York

When did you start planning to apply to an MBA? After working a few years, or were you already planning to study abroad in college?

That's a great question. I think I'm a bit different from most people. Most people probably only think about applying to an MBA after working for a while (after all, an MBA usually needs 3 to 5 years of work experience, and in the US the average age at most MBA programs is around 28 to 30).

What's different about me is that I've wanted to study abroad since I was very young, but back then I didn't know what to study. I just always wanted to go into something Finance-related, because I'm really interested in finance, especially Financial Analysis!

So after I graduated from college and finished my military service, I started preparing for the GMAT and TOEFL, which you need to apply to US schools. My goal at the time was actually a Master of Finance. While preparing for the GMAT, I joined a study group at a prep school, and most people there were preparing for an MBA. I didn't really know much about MBAs then, so I wondered why everyone wanted to do one.
So while preparing for the GMAT, after talking with more of them, I realized an MBA wasn't what I had imagined. What it could give me was actually what I wanted more. So after the GMAT, I made up my mind and went to work, to build up the 3 to 5 years of work experience for an MBA. So I actually went to work for the sake of the MBA. Otherwise, my plan back then was to go abroad right after the exam.

How long did the MBA application take, and which part was the hardest?

For my MBA application, since I went to work right after the GMAT, I was preparing the whole time. And by preparing I don't mean starting on essays, because you probably only start writing those in the last few months. I mean I went to MBA events and met MBA people to find out what an MBA really is, what the details are, and how an MBA could help me get to what I want to do in the future. So I'd say I did a lot of research and a lot of preparation.

That's also when I realized there's a lot more information on English-language websites and much less in Chinese. I know Jason also runs a study-abroad website. I found there's more information in English, but I don't think the problem is that reading English is hard, since anyone going abroad is probably comfortable with English. The hard part is that their background is different from ours, so even after reading their stuff, it's often hard to use it to write our own.

So I think what Jason is doing is great too: he built a study-abroad forum, OfferLand, where people can share their own information. That's also why I started my blog in the first place. I felt there was way too little in Chinese, so I wrote up what I'd gathered during this process.

Later I also made a study-abroad package with a ton of information in it. If you're interested, DM me on Instagram and you can get my complete study-abroad application package.

So I think the hardest part really is "finding a school you really want to go to", because every MBA class leans in a different direction. Take Columbia MBA, where Jason went: the location is great (New York) and there are lots of finance resources. Like I said, New York has a lot of resources, and an MBA is often about networking, so each MBA class really leans differently. Say more people from one MBA class go into finance: if you want to work in finance, you'll definitely get more help at that MBA than at others, for example more than at a West Coast MBA. That's very clear! So I think in this process you need to figure out what you actually want to do, and which of the MBAs you're applying to fits that direction. I think that's the harder part.

Another hard part is the GMAT. It was relatively OK for me, but for most people it probably takes longer. So I think everyone should, especially if you're working, find a way to make time. If you can set aside three to four hours a day to prepare seriously for the GMAT, that will probably help. Of course some schools waive the GMAT, but personally I'd still suggest taking the GMAT first if you can. If you really can't get your score up, then think about a waiver. From what I've seen, people with higher GMAT scores seem a bit more likely to get scholarships. Of course that's not certain, it's just data from people around me for reference.

Besides preparing for the GMAT early, did you run into other difficulties? If you could redo your application, which decisions would you change?

That's a good question. Like I said, I prepared for quite a long time
Most people probably suddenly want to do an MBA in the last year or two and go for it. I started very early
Like I said, I went to work in order to do an MBA, so if I had known about MBAs earlier
this may not apply to everyone, but I feel if I had known what an MBA was in college
and had already known I'd do an MBA, like Jason, who started preparing early in college
I think that's great. The earlier you prepare the better, because only by preparing early do you find out what you can avoid
For example, my goal back then was to go abroad right away, so I wasn't working and was preparing for the GMAT full time
And I feel that spending several months of my life with no job at all, as a full-time test taker
was a bit of a waste. Mainly because I didn't know. If I had known from the start that I'd be preparing for an MBA
I definitely would have gone straight to work and prepared on the side, since I'd know I wouldn't go for another three to five years
So looking back, I still think that if you're listening and you're a college student right now
start researching right now: why do you want an MBA, and which MBA do you want
then work backward to what you need to prepare now

Part 2 What the MBA was like

After starting the MBA, was it different from what you expected?

I'm on the more cautious, pessimistic side
Or rather, what I mean is, when everyone says something is great, I discount it first and wonder if it's really that good
That's my habit, and since I'd already discounted it
once I got into the MBA, it was pretty much what I expected
In other words, I think most people make it sound too good, that's true
I think that makes sense, because if you finally got in after working so hard
you usually talk about the good parts. If you talk about the bad parts, it's like the thing you worked so hard for
turned out not so great, which is a bit disappointing. So I'm more honest, I'll just tell the truth
I'm not saying others are wrong. Maybe they really had a better experience, and I've actually been very lucky, but I want to share what it's really like for more people
OK, so first, I think an MBA isn't a magic pill. A lot of people think that after an MBA you can go to those
big companies and switch careers, and that's a bit unrealistic. It's unrealistic because when we switch
there are three things to switch: country, function and industry
Right, so you can usually only switch two. Switching all three at once is just too hard
That's the truth. Since we've already switched countries, you can only switch either function
or industry. So if you were already in tech, going back into tech is better. If you were in, say, consumer goods
and you weren't in that function either, switching both and suddenly becoming a PM in tech is clearly unrealistic
Either you were already in tech or you were already a PM. Even if it's not tech, at least one of them has to match
for it to be much easier. So my first piece of advice is, don't assume that after an MBA
you can definitely switch all three. I've seen very, very few people do it, unless you go into something like consulting
Consulting probably doesn't care about your background, or IB (Investment Banking)
might not either, but IB really... I know we'll talk more about IB later
But first I'll say, try to plan your switch well. The first thing is, don't think an MBA is a magic pill
The second thing is, I think people see an MBA as a very
a lot of people say this: a place with lots of parties, lots of parties and lots of networking. That part is true
It really is like that, so on this point I think they're right: people come here to make friends
and the drinking really is a bit much. Personally, I don't want to drink too much, but usually after one drink
I keep going and have a few more, I can't control myself. So that part is true. But if you don't drink
or if you just don't like networking, that's fine too. Plenty of us don't really go to those events
Even if we skip those events, there are other ways to network. It doesn't have to be that way
Staying close to friends doesn't have to mean drinking parties, drinking parties. That kind of networking is more work-related
it's more like company mixers. But to keep in touch with friends
like at Michigan, sometimes we'd just go to someone's house and hang out, and someone would bring their dog
there's a big yard, and we'd all hang out, play board games or chat over drinks
really chill. And you don't have to drink, not necessarily
you don't have to drink. I still drink, but you don't have to. I think people who don't like drinking
or who are shy can definitely find their own circle too. So don't think that doing an MBA means you have to be super outgoing
Not necessarily. I think plenty of people are still introverts, so it's fine
it can suit a lot of people. That's about it. Oh, sorry
Let me add one more thing, because this year is a bit unusual: this year's job market. MBAs really depend on the job market
whether the economy is good or not directly and seriously affects our MBA job search
For example, this year's job market isn't great. As far as I know, consulting
in past years, consulting was where a big share of MBAs went
the industry that hires the most MBAs, so most people usually went into consulting
But this year consulting has really been hit by the job market, so this year, getting a return offer
a return offer is when you intern there and they think you're good, so they give you a return offer
and once you finish your last year of the MBA, you can go straight back to work there
That's called a return offer, so your summer internship is really important
the summer internship between your first and second year is really important
It directly affects whether you have a job when you graduate after your second year. In past years, with consulting internships
as long as you didn't mess up badly, about 90% of people usually got a return offer, but this year, as I understand it, it's down to under 40%
So MBAs are very affected by the economy, and that's something you may want to keep in mind

What does a typical MBA day look like? Do you spend a lot of time networking after class?

I think every day is different, every day varies a lot, so I think
let me put it this way: people may say you have to read a lot of cases and it takes forever, and that's true
because when you first get there, we're not native speakers after all, so reading may take us many times longer than a native speaker
So at first we do need to spend more time on coursework. At least I did, I spent more time on coursework because I wanted to fit in
That's the first thing. The second is that there are way too many networking events
You can't go to all of them. If you go to every one, you probably can't keep up with everything else
Because for us, I think the most important thing is still the job search. Some networking is really just with friends
just hanging out and making friends with classmates, so you can decide whether to go
At first my priority was job first, school second
and then networking with friends. That's my order, and of course it can be different for everyone
At least for me, I couldn't do it all, so I always put the job search first
With the job search first, at the start I was always trying to either polish my resume
or go network, the kind of networking that's a virtual coffee chat
finding those companies online to chat with and learn about their culture and so on
Because once you're in the industry, you'll see how important networking is. When they interview you, ideally
they already know you, and the people around them already know you, and they'll give some positive feedback about you
So you have to network. It's necessary, a necessary... evil. I was going to say necessary evil, but then I thought that's not right either
because I can understand why it works this way. If there are two equally strong candidates
first, I already know this person well enough from networking in person, and second, I see they've done a lot of networking
doesn't that mean their commitment to this company is high enough, that they're more serious
I think it goes both ways: you're looking for them, and they're looking for you
So if your commitment is high enough, it can in some ways improve your chances of getting hired
I think there's a positive relationship there, so I think it's necessary, getting to know each other
Because in the US, 70% of jobs actually come through networking. Why does this number keep going up? But I think it makes sense
because when everyone is about the same and there's only one spot, and I see your commitment is higher than everyone else's
doesn't that show, to some degree, that you're more interested? It might, so I think it's necessary
Right, and most of the rest of the time is hanging out with friends. That's mainly it
I put the job search first: looking for openings to apply to, then networking, sending
cold emails asking whether they'd do some networking, or attending corporate presentations
Because back then everything was online, and I think most still is now. Maybe companies realized coming in person is kind of dumb
online is more convenient, since sometimes they're lazy: put it online and schools across the US join at once
They only have to do it once and save a lot of travel expense, which is really convenient. The rest of the time I'd read cases
because I think reading cases still improves my English and some work-related skills too. Especially our
projects that involve more hands-on experience, the assignments where we work with a company, I put more effort into
because I think that's like your internship, sort of an internship before the internship
So I took it seriously back then. At Ross we have a project called MAP where you can do
a hands-on experience project with a company, and I think that's really important. Third is making friends and hanging out with them
and networking, which is more casual

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